Yet another ideas-thread

[Admiral Sinaris]

Don't they get annoying, all these threads? I bet they do! But well, here is yet another one! And one hell of a long one, too.
My main sources of inspiration are Melkors old "Training Server" thread (a few months old), his new "My DG ideas" thread, reactions to my own ideas posted in them, and THIS thread, the poll results and a few of the comments.

I will try to show up all the things I want to change in DG (most of this many of you will have read one time or the other already in these forums, but some of this might be new to you, as I just figured it out in the last few days, when a lot of very interesting ideas were posted).

This stuff will get really rather long. If you’re not too interested in my explanations of stuff, but only in the actual changes I want, only look up the lists in the thread, they show the basics of the concepts, or look for the highlighted words, I’ll try to put in some of these

Well, let's start then, shall we?


Comfort Changes

I will only write about changes which would add to the interface of the game here, that wouldn’t have a major impact on the gameplay probably, but still make it easier or faster to play.

Planets and Building

• Divide the planets into sector-groups, so that there is a small gap between the planets of two sectors, for better overview (not that important)
• Queues for Demolition
• Ability to queue stuff that needs the structure which is being built at the moment to be available (e.g. Launch Site -> Shipyard)
• A “Comms”-page instead of the single pages, where you could see the comm screens of various sectors without having to click on various planets.
• An "Incoming Fleet" warning for hostile fleets heading to one of your planets (to those without comms, too, at least as long as there is a single comm of you in the sector)
• Planet-Screen showing the number of colonists, scientists and soldiers on the planet (there is still lot's of space on the right side of the planet list, and it would give better overview)

Fleets

• Enable a "Split Fleet" option, so already existing fleets can split into different fleets (when not moving)
• An alphanumeric order for the fleet list (and make it work when pushing the "next fleet"-arrow, too!), or even better, customizable Fleet-screens

Navigation

• Change the way the systems are placed in the sectors. Place the 1-planet systems in the center, the 2-planet systems arround them and so on, till the 5-planet systems are at the edge (ok, useless suggestion, agreed, but it would look cool)
• Implement a new colour for the In-Sector Navigation: Orange for systems in which not only you or allies are, but enemies, too. This makes it easier to see in which systems there might be dangers, too. Alternatively, you could have orange for systems with you and enemies, and yellow for systems with allies and enemies.

Research

• Add a queue function for research (for research depending on the research that is done at them moment, too, like with the buildings)
• Make the ressearch Icon red when no ressearch is happening (thanks Kev for the idea)

Alliances

• Add a mass-mail system to send out mails to all members of an alliance
• Add an “average point-score” in an alliances overview, and create a separate top 100 for that rating, too. No need for poor forum-users to create that chart by hand
• Add the possibility for single persons to sign up other. Ok, this would be a major change, but I think it is already done, and as it cannot be prevented, it should be made legal so everyone has the same chances. But of course we’d need a new system, so, for example, you can give another account (forum account, ingame accounts aren’t signed up before the signups, doh ) the permission to sign you up, he cannot simply log into your account.

News

• Add more information on the news screen, especially where the event took place and, in case of invasions, what the outcome was. This gives you a quicker overview over the events, allowing you to find information faster

Setup Changes

With Mars ending for the time being, and Saturn starting as a sort of a main server again, discussion has been hot in the last few days what to do about the two servers, whether or not to keep these servers both and stuff. Well, I guess I annoyed some people with these ideas already, but hey, I had them, so I naturally think they are great So here they are again

Basics

I think the past rounds on Saturn and Mars have shown something: Even though big and interesting wars CAN and DO happen, they still are somewhat rare, and then, they are often determined whether or not an alliance can cross the galaxy-border.
There were quite some great Inner-Galactic wars, but looking at the last Mars round, I must say that there wasn’t too much of that stuff in that one.
The logical solution is ONE main server, a bit like we’ll have it on Saturn this round (even though this Saturn round will probably be a bit messed up, with people having planned for Mars and stuff). But thinking further, it is clear that even with one server, some major problems (especially the question of intergalactic wars) won’t be solved, so we need some more changes. My solution to that problem is a server which concentrates on one purpose: To create a battlefield for the top-alliances, where they can really kick each others asses, and where intergalactic battle is encouraged and made possible. I’ll describe it in detail later.
The way that server would work also makes it clear that especially newer players would have problems with instantly joining on this server (of course, there is the possibility that they are taken in by a top-ally, but not all the new players will have that option available upon joining), and hence, they might need a place to get hooked into the game, and learn the basics. At the same time, there might be people who got killed on the Main Server, or those who never wanted such a competitive surrounding (probably because they don’t want to invest as much time into it), and these people might want a more “easy” server for them, too. There also is the problem that, with the purpose of the Main Server being intergalactic war, rounds on the Main Server would probably take quite a long time (I estimate around 3700 turns), and signing up after a certain amount of time has passed would be useless. Hence, there’d need to be a place where people could sign up every time, like in Round 3, and where they don’t have to wait for months for the round to start.
I insist on not calling it a Training Server, because, how people correctly said, Training in DG is achieved with competition and with learning from big alliances and experienced players. I’d rather call it something like Galactic Server, as it would focus on inner-galactic combat. (For the rest of this thread, I will use the term “Main Server” for the server for intergalactic combat, and the term “Normal Server” for the “easier” server) It’s purpose is not to train newbies by teaching them how to farm (which is probably what the Training Server as it was suggested by some others would do), but it would be set up so that it can bring in people into the game whenever they want, on a level where even casual players have a chance to reach something, but only the active can get really big. In short:

Main Server

• The major alliances will go here, because here the real competition happens
• The setup will encourage intergalactic wars as good as possible
• The rounds will run for a long time, so that real campaigns are possible.

Normal Server

• The server will be the place for people coming freshly into the game, for people who don’t want to spend all that much time on the game and enjoy casual gaming, and those who were killed on the Main Server and seek for a little fun and exercise whilst waiting for the new round
• The server will focus on inner galactic wars (intergalactic travel won’t even be possible, nor will it be necessary)
• It will be possible to join at any time, so newcomers aren’t repelled by having to wait for ages for a new round to open

The Normal Server

Ok, let’s get into a bit of detail here. What is the main goal of the server? It is to make it possible for players to sign up at any time they want, mainly, and it shouldn’t be all that extreme like the Main Server.
So, how to reach that? There is of course the possibility of a System like round 3, but honestly, I can’t say I like that too much for this purpose.
First of all, let’s concentrate on the problem of ongoing signups. We really need people to be able to sign up whenever they want! At the same time, we need people to have a real chance not to be bashed on start-up. To reach this, we need strictly divided “units” to have the same staring-conditions for everyone. Of course, galaxies are the most logical choice to choose as such a unit. The question is whether or not travel between galaxies should be possible. I answer that with a no: Intergalactic war is something which only is somewhat interesting with bigger alliances, not with only a few people.
So, first problem is solved: People start in galaxies so they have a starting chance, and they stay there, because they should learn inner galactic wars. Still, there is the problem of how to achieve the balance within these galaxies. If signups just continue till the galaxy is full, the people signing up in the end will be ****ed. Hence, the galaxies should have a blocker inside, too, to make sure that people have the same chances.
The way to go is to make the galaxies smaller (arround 1000 players should really be enough for a decent inner galactic war), and to have them signed up in a one-week signup phase (like the current servers). During that signup phase, the server is filled normally. Afterwards the galaxy is closed, and a new galaxy is opened up, and a new signup starts there.
This way, every player could sign up upon arriving here, and the maximum wait-time for the start is one week.
Now, after the signup problem is solved, there are other matters that would need to be taken care of on such a server, too. A main difficulty on such a server could be mass-inviters of a sort (new players don’t posses the experience to fight them good), and anyway, nobody should be able to get enough power to completely kill off the galaxy, so there still is a bit of competition even for the biggest alliance in the galaxy.
So, there’d need to be some limitations on players. I’d say a 20-planet limit and a 20-member limit or something arround this would be quite okay. This should give players the possibility to control quite a few sectors, fight their enemies efficiently, and still not bash every n00b in the galaxy to death.
Finally, there is the question whether or not this should run endlessly. Of course, it shouldn’t. A galaxy should run long enough for people to gain some real power and become dominating in a galaxy, and then it should finish. I’d say something arround 1500-2000 turns, but that is up for discussion. The goal is for the new players to experience a full round of galactic combat; but not get bored by farming afterwards, but, at the best, now try and apply for a big alliance and start with the real fun on the Main Server as soon as possible.

In short, the Normal Server has about the following values:

• The Server is not a real universe, but a composition of galaxies which are completely separated from each other
• Signup is possible at any time
• Whenever a new galaxy is opened, a one-week signup phase starts, and the galaxy is filled, after the week a new galaxy is opened
• Galaxies have about 1000 rulers each
• Member Limit for alliances will be arround 20, Planet limit about the same
• Galaxies end after 1500-2000 ticks have passed

The Main Server

I’m repeating myself but: This is no play zone! The Main Server is supposed to be a place for some diehard competition, where only the best survive (but the others get some honour, too ). I think that this is the way to go for major alliances, as farming hardly satisfies anyone, and only real competition can bring some fire into their games again.
The Main Server will not care about newbie-protection – if a newbie wants to try, he should feel free to (People are even encouraged to try out to play on the Main Server, too), but they don’t have any protection here.
The idea behind this all is that there is the need for a nice intergalactic battlefield, where there will be complete and total war for each and every galaxy. As I see it, there might be two ways to achieve this, whereas one goes a biiiig step further then the other.

The main solution is the decrease of travel time, as one of the most important blocking factors for intergalactic war. And I think that travel to each and every galaxy should be the same, so that you can move to every galaxy in the universe (each alliance could attack each other alliance with nearly the same chances, encouraging people to wage war on certain alliances without having to care about crossing a gal full of enemies first – at least in some sense, I’ll get to it later).
Now you could just leave it with that, add these values to the database, and that’s about it. Honestly, I don’t think that would really solve our problems.

My suggestion on the matter is a bit different approach: My galaxy-layout plan. The main point of it is that there is ONE main galaxy, the Center Galaxy, and 4 Galaxies that surround this galaxy, the Starting Galaxies.
The thought behind that is that there is not only the need to create the possibility for intergalactic war, but also a target for it.

Hence, my idea is like this: The Center Galaxy is completely empty, without any possibility to sign up there. Its purpose is to become a huge battlefield, as alliance fight about planets and passageways to other galaxies. In order to reach that, there are several things in the Center Galaxy which are important:
First of all, the planets have a general better abundancies (arround 5-10% better in total for each planet then the abundancies in the normal galaxies or even higher) to encourage people to go to the main galaxy and fight for planets there instead of staying home and bashing everything and everyone to have a completely safe (and boring) galaxy behind them before they start expanding to other galaxies. Such alliances would take a hard beating from other alliances that were brave enough to go to the center gal and take the planets there, because alliances in the center gal get a respectable advantage in resource-income.
Then, there is the question of the travel to other galaxies. Travel to and from the center galaxy would be 20 or 24 turns without JG (at the highest 36 without JG, if you insist…), making it easily accesible, and also quite easy to attack from there. The trick is that with that, the control of the Center Galaxy as a starting point for attacks is also important – alliances controlling the center galaxy could block of attacks against them quite efficiently already when in the center gal, or at least together with other alliances who they have an agreement with (I had the short idea to cut 4- and 5-planet systems from the Center Galaxy, because complete control of a sector would be quite an important goal, and that could be reached better without having to invade every 4- and 5er planet, but I haven’t taken it into serious consideration up to now).

This all should make the Center Galaxy quite interesting. Now, there still is the question of the signups and the Starting Galaxies.
The starting Galaxies would be the only place where people could signup. In order to get a decent amount of players on the server, with 4 Starting Galaxies, one of these should hold at least 2000 rulers each, probably even more. There should be empty sectors in the Starting Galaxies, but probably only one for every 3 signup-sectors, because expanding to the Center Galaxy should be encouraged.
A major change in signups would be my idea to make it possible to choose the galaxy you want to sign up in. This should make pre-game diplomacy more interesting; it would also mean a better balance in the division of alliances over the galaxies (as it is now, many alliances sign up shortly before the round starts, because “their” galaxy wasn’t reached) and be a lot more comfortable for the alliance, because waiting for years for the galaxy to show up is simply annoying. For the fans of waiting: Teams would still have to wait for their sectors. Signups would probably be one or two weeks. Afterwards, empty staring-sectors and “their” empty sectors could be deleted (so that a galaxy with fewer rulers doesn’t have an advantage because they can colonize more empty sectors). Signing up after the signups have finished probably could be possible in free slots in already “started” sectors (that would make, with 4 gals, a total maximum of 196 signup slots on the server), but it is generally impossible, simply because it would be a waste of time to try and play a successful round after you missed a few dozen ticks on a server with such competition.

Of course, on such a server, there wouldn’t be the limits there would be on the normal server. I think that there should be no upper limit for the planet-limit ressearch, and research times should stop decreasing after 20 or so. This would mean that you actually can research bigger limits, and you still wouldn’t have enough limit free to take each and every planet in a sector (as long as you still need at least some turns to research a planet limit, you cannot take a new planet every 12 ticks, so you still have to choose which planets to take), but war would not be blocked by the limit.
The alliance-member limit should be removed also – but NOT the sector-recruitment limit. With the sector-recruitment limit, old-fashioned mass-inviters still couldn’t work like they did in round 3; yet, any big alliance who wants members could take them. Yes, this WOULD encourage the forming of powerblocks, I agree, but that is in fact the point behind this. A merged powerblock is an obvious target, and probably would attract the attention of other alliances, which would then form alliances against this powerblock themselves – the result I hope for would be HUGE wars between gigantic alliances. And after all, the problem with coordinating bigger alliances still stays the same, so even huge alliances would not be able to simply crush everything and everyone.

In short (which the above clearly isn’t ), the Center Galaxy would have about these values:

• One Center Galaxy in the middle, 4 starting Galaxy arround it
• No one can sign up in the Center Galaxy, only in the Starting Galaxies
• People can choose in which of the Starting Galaxies they want to sign up
• Signup goes for about 1 or 2 weeks, afterwards, empty staring-sectors are deleted and no signing up is possible afterwards
• Intergalactic travel is only possible to and from the Center Galaxy, it takes about 20-24 ticks
• The Center Galaxy has planet-abundancies which are 5-10% better then the ones in the normal galaxies.
• The alliance-member limit is removed, but the sector-limit stays
• No upper limit for the planet-limit research anymore, and research times don’t increase after limit 20 or so
• The rounds would last for about 3700 ticks or so, making it about 2 rounds each year, with a few breaks and signups in between

I will probably add a few different suggestions to this thread in the next few days, but we’ll see about that.

EDIT: Corrected a few typos, talk to me if you find some more

EDIT 2: On public demand, I changed the word "alphabetic" in the fleet section to "alphanumeric". I think it was clear I ment the latter from the start, but you guys kept complaining...

EDIT 3: Added some suggestions from THIS Thread

[Rakis]

Jezus, how long did u take to write this one?

[Garak]

Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

Don't they get annoying, all these threads? I bet they do!

´

YES...

Still - i ll read up this later and ll give you a full critic

[JediStefan]

Originally Posted by Garak

´

YES...

Still - i ll read up this later and ll give you a full critic

lol you post that you are going to post
some nice thought in this thread

[Admiral Sinaris]

Originally Posted by Togy

Servers.

Saturn - free for all
Mars - Pay to play

i bet i get flamed for saying that pay to play, but bolox to it, premmies pay to support the game they should get something in return

Another addition - either bring back robots or create a new unit for planet fighting, spice it up a bit, maby a "defender" which is twice as effective as a soilder but costs 2 1/2 times more, so the only advantage is that they eat less food than haveing 2 times the soidlers and take up less houseing (hence better for defending than soilders), but they should have sucky score \o/

Togy: I have a different approach on what boni premium-members should recieve. I don't think a premie-server would make anyone happy - playing with a few dozen people isn't all that satisfying, is it? I'll explain more on that in my post which I'm working on at the moment, which states a few different ideas.
The same goes for the robots and stuff - have thought about that, I will post more on that topic, too.

As Garak kicked me about it on IRC: I clearly support another Mars-round! It is simply not fair to have all the people calculating for Mars go to Saturn now. I think at least another Mars-Round would be needed before changes as deep as these could be implemented!

But the setup-part is just a general guideline for my plans for future development, not what should happen within the next few days!

[Garak]

All in all nice ideas you have sinaris.

Here my point that i already told you on IRC about restarting mars or not as equal server.

Originally Posted by togy

Saturn - free for all
Mars - Pay to play

Nice... VERY nice. I dont even give a comment on this. All i took this into my post for s the fact that some ppl really insist on NOT restarting mars as equal server. I CAN understand that this is a good move - cause then the game will contentrate on one server again which might improve the fun at least for those of us that are more or less skilled in this great game. BUT what i can NOT understand is one simple fact:
That NOONE has been told about NOT resetting mars for another round as equal server again. I know that Scan hasnt decided yet if mars will exists for a round 7 or not - BUT whilst thinking about this keep in mind that some ppl bought their premium accounts cause of being able to play on 2 servers then and that ppl counted on a mars round 7 means that its barely unfair against those that support this game by buying premmies and count on being able to play on 2 servers to stop or change one without telling anyone IN TIME about that.
I wont whine about it and i like supporting this game - so i certainly wont yell aaround and say that i will cancel my premmie - but i REALLY insist on a round 7 mars as equal server. Thats only fair. Nothing more nothing less.

Thanks for reading this,

Garak

[Admiral Sinaris]

Read my post above: I fully agree with you on the next mars round, but I was faster

[pro314]

Alphanumeric fleet list
Neptune is the best server, fastgames rule

i think neptune shoudl be used to test new parts of the code, like it was this weekend, but every 2nd weekend andy small changes should be tested in it to make sure majority of bugs are gone b4 it get to be the code for mars or saturn.

mars-fun for premies to play, i would like to see it stay, but it can go if they promis more speedgames

[.cox]

z&s should make it able to pay for a prem another way than credit card... would encourage more ppl to become premmie...
i for myself would encourage this since id like to be premmie, but i simply cant buy it technically.
as for the servers...
i dont care as long one stays for me

[Admiral Sinaris]

Originally Posted by pro314

Alphanumeric fleet list

Already mentioned that above, at least alphabetical order, look above

Also, the premie-discussion probably shouldn't be in this thread, at least as long as there aren't any inovative ideas on how to solve it....

[pro314]

i must stress alphaNUMERIC

the numeric bit is very importan for the way me and a lot of others name fleets

[[Cracker]]

Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

Comfort Changes
Planets and Building

• Divide the planets into sector-groups, so that there is a small gap between the planets of two sectors, for better overview (not that important)
• Queues for Demolition
• Ability to queue stuff that needs the structure which is being built at the moment to be available (e.g. Launch Site -> Shipyard)
• A “Comms”-page instead of the single pages, where you could see the comm screens of various sectors without having to click on various planets.

All seconded. I hope to see some of that stuff in any client for the new code.

Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

Fleets

• Enable a "Split Fleet" option, so already existing fleets can split into different fleets (when not moving)
• An alphabetical order for the fleet list (and make it work when pushing the "next fleet"-arrow, too!), or even better, customizable Fleet-screens

Not much to add and should be easy to implement

Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

Navigation

• Change the way the systems are placed in the sectors. Place the 1-planet systems in the center, the 2-planet systems arround them and so on, till the 5-planet systems are at the edge (ok, useless suggestion, agreed, but it would look cool)

• Would it? Why?
  
  

  Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

  Implement a new colour for the In-Sector Navigation: Orange for systems in which not only you or allies are, but enemies, too. This makes it easier to see in which systems there might be dangers, too. Alternatively, you could have orange for systems with you and enemies, and yellow for systems with allies and enemies.

looks good

Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

Research

• Add a queue function for research (for research depending on the research that is done at them moment, too, like with the buildings)

agree

Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

Alliances

• Add a mass-mail system to send out mails to all members of an alliance
  

• I think thats not that much needed, a good alliance has external forums anyhow.
  
  

  Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

  Add an “average point-score” in an alliances overview, and create a separate top 100 for that rating, too. No need for poor forum-users to create that chart by hand

  hey, some people get their rep that way Nonetheless, some more statistics ingame would be nice.
  
  

  Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

  Add the possibility for single persons to sign up other. Ok, this would be a major change, but I think it is already done, and as it cannot be prevented, it should be made legal so everyone has the same chances. But of course we’d need a new system, so, for example, you can give another account (forum account, ingame accounts aren’t signed up before the signups, doh ) the permission to sign you up, he cannot simply log into your account.

On the other hand an alliance managing to make their sign-up propperly on the current terms WITHOUT cheating (now called the SL-syndrome ) can take this as a first test for their activity.

Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

News

• Add more information on the news screen, especially where the event took place and, in case of invasions, what the outcome was. This gives you a quicker overview over the events, allowing you to find information faster

At the moment you have ONE button more to press, don't think thats demanding too much.

I am not commenting the ideas regarding the servers as it is totally in the hands of Zedd, Scan and their bandwiths

[Scythe]

hmmm too bad these ideas will prolly just be ideas.....most of them are very good though

[Patsch]

Seems we need a kind of a CVS-version for suggestions, I'm pretty sure this round a lot will come and they shouldn't end in such a chaos like in the old suggestion forum. I remember very well the big summary posting, was surely much work. This time the summary should be first as an index.

[Aracos]

Originally Posted by Admiral Sinaris

[*]Add the possibility for single persons to sign up other. Ok, this would be a major change, but I think it is already done, and as it cannot be prevented, it should be made legal so everyone has the same chances. But of course we’d need a new system, so, for example, you can give another account (forum account, ingame accounts aren’t signed up before the signups, doh ) the permission to sign you up, he cannot simply log into your account.

Why not a system where you can choose your galaxy and sector?

Maybe like this:

Galaxy : [ ] <-- then you can choose one .... lets say 23
Sector : [ ] <-- ^^ .... lets say 38

Then you get an info about how many places left
in this sector [23:38] - ( 23/50 )

And then you can choose your rulername and sign up.
(or refrech and choose another sector)




Dunno if this is possible, but would make signups easier and all of the Galaxys would have people in it. Well, ofc the sectors wouldn't fill up till 50 people anymore, but now there are also some rulers already inactive when turns start.
And with the reduced galaxy travel time there could be some nice galaxy wars?!

But it would be bad for the people who want to sign up later... there wouldn't be any free space anymore! But maybe one could split it. Galaxy 11-14 (or more) choose sectors and from turn start the remaining Galaxys after the old system.

hmmm.... well just a thought